IV. The Place of Free Will
Verse 16 draws the obvious inference from verse 15. Whether a man receives mercy from God or not does not depend on a man's willing or his running (=efforts) but solely on God. In other words, God's merciful treatment of anyone is never initiated by or in any way ultimately influenced by the person's will. This is a necessary inference from verse 15: The all glorious God whose glory consists in his freedom to choose whomever He will cannot be determined by or obligated by anything outside himself.
If free will were defined as the native power in a man to determine his own destiny, this text shows that there is no such thing in the entire world. It not only shows free will to be non-existent, it also shows that to demand free will is an offence against the righteousness of God. For in Paul's understanding the inability of man by his willing to elicit God's mercy (9:16) is a direct inference from the glorious freedom of God (9:15) which in turn is the ground of his righteousness. If God's righteousness consists in his maintaining the fullness of his glory, and if an essential side of that glory is his absolute freedom in election from human willing and running, then to insist that man's will ultimately determines his destiny is to offend the righteousness of God.
The verses are in Romans 9
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21 comments:
First of all understand that i agree with this: God is Holy and can do whatever He wants and that act will be considered Holy. With Romans 10:9-10 also verse 13 it seems that God has bound Himself by His word. I guess what im trying to say is that God can push people away or pull them towards Himself however it seems to me that He has bound Himself by His promises to allow men if they make an effort seeing the evidence to come into the fold so to speak.
Anyway good post. I like John Piper and we need to hang out so i can figure out when ur getting married to make a decision on when im getting married.
So you agree with Piper that there's no free will?
I don't want to put words in J.C.'s mouth but the Bible speaks for itself.
Sorry, I was asking Jeff.
I love seeing people talk about God. Everyone usually learns something from it.
Well i think both to be honest even though you weren't asking me...there are to many examples in the Bible for me (at this time) to think differently. However, again God can do what He wants except go back on what He said.
And i also wanted to say about the unity thing on your last post. Truth divides i agree but it divides the saved from the lost. It does not and should not divide the Church.
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sorry Josh. Looking at Scripture I would have to conclude that there is no FREE will. However, will is in Scripture but it is not free.
you can only conclude that when you read your worldview into
Scripture.
Josh it is sad to hear you say that you can only see that by reading your worldview into scripture.
In Ephesians 2:5 it Clearly states we are dead in our trespasses.
Now lets look at that for a second what does dead in our trespasses mean. well lets first look at what death means.
For senturies humans have debated what is death and when it begins compared to when life stops but the current and most accurate meaning is and i quote from wikipedia
"people are considered dead when the electrical activity in their brain ceases However, suspension of consciousness must be permanent."
So this would mean when a human is no longer able to function in any manner and consiciousness must be suspended forever. never to be brought back to life.
This would then indicate that in ephesians we are spiritaully dead. we cant be jolted back there is no spiritual CPR or defib to make our spiritual heart beat.
So in this state of worldliness we can make choices. Yes we have a will, but it is shackled by our longings and wants. As the bible says we are sinfull in nature. we cannot try to please God or search for him. Romans 3:11 takes care of that "no one seeks God" This is a quote from psalms where it says no one does good they have all turned from God.
So then in my mind we come to the point where one has to ask themselves how to i get out of this situation and the answer is in Galatians 5:1 "Christ has set us free"
This is where Christ has changed out wicked and deicietfull hearts. Our longings and desires are no longer of the world but of God. we long him and desire to please him. So we do things to fulfill that.
Now is this our will yes. But did I our You decide that..? Absolutly not. In the text it has said Christ has done this for me and for you. We are still shakled by the longing God has given to us. He is still all powerfull and chooses who comes to him and who doesn't
That is how i answer the question of free will Josh please tell me what your thoughts are
Be careful not to misunderstand Piper. Andrew got it right. Humans have a free will which is in bondage. Read The Freedom of the Will or Bondage of the Will... Edwards or Luther for a clear representation.
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yeah i can never escape romans nine
Luther expresses it in such dogmatic terms though that your like, really? but i dont beleive there are many around or any that really grasp it the way people like he or people like spurgeon did, we are living in like the hyper downgrade.
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